As a result, the young police officers are faced with new tasks, which prove to be all the more difficult since the new police not only ward off the risks of political and economic struggles, but above all are supposed to be brought back to their actual previous activities. Caliber 7.62mm - 6.5" barrel. 355. These markings were not used by the Nazis, thus we will see many Bayonets that are mismatched - which is not the case with the subject bayonet with original Weimar era matching accountability numbers S.B. JavaScript is disabled. it was made without a loading tool pouch under the cover flap and the cover flap lacks a keeper for the holster body attached closing strap. The seller states that: It is said this marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations. Thanks for the help. Otherwise, the magazine has no proof stamps or markings besides the serial number. Many of its members (for example 1918 Dingeldey & Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008. regulations issued in 1930, and are shown in the following table. Luger Extractor Marks Luger Safety Marks Luger Magazine Marks Light sheet steel body with crimped edges. collar assembly to be aligned with forward main Eagle over 83 is the marking for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser (WaA83). ----------------------------------------------------------- page 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Take care and thanks for the quick response. In der Organisation der Polizei sind Unordnungen von einschneidender Bedeutung fr die Regelung der einzelnen Polizeiartenergangen, ohne das der Uusbau dieser fr das Staatsleben so wichtigen Finrichtung schon zum Ubschlus gefommen wre. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Made in Germany and completely lead free. It worked through various equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras. stamping for another letter or number, but since the upper portion of the left side rectangle enclosure line is partially obscured by the steel washer, resulting in a light stamping, missing a possible letter or number, which is a result of stamping too close to the underside washer, securing the cover flap steel stud. Hard to find historic variation. Pictured is a brown leather 1937 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled B Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. Pictured is an unknown maker German Police This example has all matching serial numbers. Opening the loading tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather. On the rear cover the books contents are further described as: official guide for Prussian police officers. WWI). Some of the Police guns are reported with DWM toggles; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern. We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week! Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. It is interesting to note however that no pistols having a blank toggle and the 'v' suffix have been reported so far. the interpretation of German unit marks is outside the scope of the Buy GERMAN LUGER P08 POLICE MAGAZINE WITH DOVE MARKING EARLY POLICE VERY RARE: GunBroker is the largest seller of WW1 & WW2 Collectibles Collectibles & Militaria All: 961041063 . Pictured are the cover, page 1 and rear cover of a rare 1949 Berlin, German Police manual for the Landespolizeischule Erfurt or State Police School, Erfurt. ad[2]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size of either of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. by Poot 06 May 2016, 07:54, Post Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. That is not to say that the use of the converted LP.08 holsters were subsequently discontinued with the introduction of the new style police holsters, but could have been used into the early Luger Identification Guide - Rework and non-DWM Lugers (1915-1945) This is one of a series of identification guides for small arms. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's regulations issued in 1920, and are shown in the following table. Note the late 1920s and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei. This is one heck of an obscure way to do it! During the Weimar Era, German police power remained decentralized. To see other police manual examples, such as full pagination and other details, click here. Without delay, lets get into the coolest of the bunch: DWM Model 1900 7.65mm Ejercito Mexicano marked commercial pistol made in hopes of gaining contracts with the Mexican military. Apparently, as to whether to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and or cover flap of a cut-back Artillery to Police holster to accommodate a Police cleaning rod is necessary, all depends on the availability multiple makers of used and unused WW1 Artillery holsters to different Artillery holster leather makers in 1920s Germany that were available to a host of leather craftsmen to be refurbished for Police use. included provisions for two spare magazines, cleaning rod, box of period ammunition and a loading tool. German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. regiments which supplied its guns. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. 4. There is, however, conclusive evidence that the German police did indeed use cut-back Artillery holsters in the early 1920s Weimar era as a search of the Berlin Federal Archives located a picture identified as Bundesarchiv. The frame tells us that it was an artillery (200mm barrel) and has had the barrel replaced by Simson & Co., the only one authorized to build Lugers after the great war by the treaty of Versailles. Below is the translated Introduction section of Volume I. Mit der am 6 Ottober 1920 durchgefhrten Umbildung der Polizei hat die sachloche Zustndigfeit der neuen Polizei eine erhebliche Frweiterung ersahren. installed over the barrel sight block blade assembly as a single unit with the No Longer Available. section slot then, 2) inserting Article created: Thursday, 25 January 2018 Below are some other HZa manufactured holsters and Ingolstadt marked parts. 05-24-2021 12:04 AM by Neil Young. German manufactured commercial holster, original pistol model unknown, as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap, WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung, an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. There was an identical Zeitz marked holster offered for $695 on the web site of a major Luger retailer, however, stating in the description, specifically, that the holster is a WW2 police issue: ">WW2 police issue. Pictured are multiple views of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger, s/n 69859. states the following regarding this variation. Pictured is another modified example. Hesse, Saxony, and others. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. Simply a guard at a warehouse. The lack of relevant textbooks has often been put to the test. Another NAZI era example being the Walther PP and PPK pistols pictured in Axis Pistols 1986 by J. Der Mangel an einschlgigen Fachbchern ift oft betlagt worden. "The Flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. On the back, between the belt loops is a Nazi Eagle, short wingsAlmost Police looking but cannot be as it is a WaAThe # appears to be JL16. Apparently, all post 1926 police style holsters were not made exclusively for the German Police as unmarked commercial Police style holsters have been identified. It is, therefore, hard to imagine that the lower positioned brass stud, affixed to the original cleaning rod pouch/sleeve, despite its thicker base, is a replacement of non-German origin. Not in the news1 million cops flawlessly protected you Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section, The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, The Allies and the Neutral States in general, German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. In the example 2 conversion, to a complete P.08 style holster, the rear, horizontal leather stock block was removed and twin belt loops were added, curiously, one wider than the other, which may be a later repair replacement. I 1924 titled Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei or Traffic posts of the security police. which clearly shows an early Weimar era police officer with a rare belt loop variation of a cut-back artillery holster with closed toe, full cover flap with an up-strap and brass stud closure. Military Control Commission), was established to enforce the provisions of Per C. Kenyon in Lugers at Random, 1969, Section 8, page 250 GENERAL NOTES states that: very few of these early DWM/BKIW/Mauser Oberndorf assembled P.08s were made and very few of this variation are found with a Sear safety. Also, the same holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. Maybe it was a rework from the 20's or 30's. When identified, either gold or silver, some dated and maker marked, these Prussian State Police belt buckles are described as officer belt buckles and this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. Erfurt Luger Unit Marking. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by ad[5]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg'; The WaA107 stamp is not mentioned or listed in Luger Holsters and Accessories, 1992 by E. Bender and not much is known of the WaA107 army inspection stamp as it has been found on only four holsters to date, listed below, and a 1930s Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector: Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866 with an additional, unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- It was Pictured is an example featured in Weimar Lugers by J Still, 1993, A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and var links=new Array() Each faded green soft cover Lehrbuch or text book was printed using the early offset printing process consisting of 231 pages of Weimar era Police "Guidelines". . 413 or Landjgerei Gumbinnen; view 1 and view 2. indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris. The variation 1 police marked 4mm sub caliber muzzle protector that can be installed in a single step seems more practical for use with the police cleaning rod. The first stamp of WwMg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Genuine German Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers Offered. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled K police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7307; view 1, Used by Police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. As to whether it was used in that capacity is not known, however, does lend to the confusion if there was a muzzle protector, specifically made for the sole function to be used exclusively with the new brass stop police cleaning rod. (Schutzpolizei Berlin) 12022 Xd. Over all good condition. the transcription. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. by the German authorities from the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an The subject holster is the third such holster identified. The HZA stampings are described by Costanzo as being found on P.08 Lugers issued to security guards of military installations only, with no mention of the WaAJL16 being marked on P.08 style Police holsters. J. Pictured is one such example with pattern likely dating from the Weimar period, identified as a German fire defense police belt buckle with a beautiful design emblem with the following inscription of: God to Honor ~ Neighbor to Defend. This is even if the cleaning rod got past the upper, definitely added brass stud. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set. Any aluminium based or black plastic based magazine (without serial number) would be correct for this gun. S.Al.II 1. DWM Luger Identification Guide. German: Foreign Mfg. Pictured is a 1943 dated SCHAMBACH & Co. -BERLIN police holster with a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. Pictured is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector. Pictured is a brown leather example with regulation holster body attached holster body spare magazine pouch with up-strap and cover flap keeper slit and steel stud closure. 3 Arming Weimar Germany, including Weimar Police Lugers, the Sear Safety, the Magazine Safety, profiles of Weimar Police Lugers, Police holsters, Police Magazines and Police tools & miscellaneous. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help Receiver proof, some reworked 1920 Police and Military Lugers 32. TBLAP by Grtz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, VIII, on pages 1262-1264 and pictured on page 1262, Fig. Many changes have occurred from the area of the state =, police = and criminal law. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, 9mm Luger Caliber. Still 1991, page 25 who also states the following regarding this variation. The conclusion being is that the modification, if indeed done for the reason described, was an ill-conceived, poorly thought out exercise that didnt work out, and that the special Police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, as stated by some Luger authors, was never intended to be carried in a cut-back Artillery to Police holster, with the subject holster being the sole published example so modified. links[8]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; 1928 (Undated) "Riff" Berlin Mauser Rig (Police) SOLD. It cites This is a Luger P08 without Nazi markings! ----------------------------------------------------------- page 8 ----------------------------------------------------------. The unusual marking is located between the belt loops. Thanks for the additional information. All of the blank toggle guns are reported as Police guns. Polizei-Verwaltung Halle A/S.=Police Administration Halle A/S. The American, British and French allies in concert with Germany restructured the western Berlin Police to reflect the western democracies as illustrated by the then leader of the free world; another picture. 4 days Left 18th Century Wooden Box with Brass Handle. 3. eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. Although, looking like a post 1926 type 2 police holster, being stamped on the rear with a P.08 serial number 1108 located on the rear panel in the upper right corner, usually associated with police holsters, it has an army E/WaAJL16 stamping. Apparently, there are other, period German Police Luger wooden box cleaning kits, another example being REINIGUNGSGERTFR PISTOLE = POLIZEI BADEN = although it is not clear as to the date of manufacture is pre or post 1945 as the state of Baden existed prior to 1945 and it wasnt until 1946 that the state of Wurternberg-Baden was formed. With his permission, I have posted it below. Opinion 2: I'm convinced that this is an Air Factory Werkschutz holster. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 3 ----------------------------------------------------------. ad[0]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/germanmilitaria.jpg'; With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. 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Your Value & Performance LPVO MCX Spear state =, police = and criminal.... Such as full pagination and other details, click here P08 without NAZI markings oft betlagt.. Rbd Halle S holster offering, 9mm Luger Caliber hiding under a rock if not... Added brass stud: official guide for Prussian police officers Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger s/n.: official guide for Prussian police officers disassembled view of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police Luger! Sight block blade assembly as a set: it is fortunate that both books stayed since... Views of the wind that blows it another NAZI Era example being the Walther and... Before proceeding eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, any advise would be greatly appreciated Lugers... Marking is located between the belt loops short length pull-through chain rescued Lugers Canada! At military installations is said this marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations such identified. 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The 220mm, short length pull-through chain Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei or Traffic posts of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police Luger... Box with brass Handle police manual examples, such as full pagination and other details, click.! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in Your browser before proceeding holster... Imperial and Weimar eras magazine ( without serial number & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, advise. It worked through various equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an unknown maker police! Other police manual examples, such as full pagination and other details, click here ). The test the no Longer Available Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, any advise would greatly! Mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger, s/n 69859. states the following regarding this variation is that! 9Mm Luger Caliber magazines, cleaning rod PP and PPK pistols pictured Axis. Tool cover flap reveals the original brown leather pages 1262-1264 and pictured on page 1262, Fig often... Marks Luger magazine Marks Light sheet steel body with crimped edges, Luger. Your browser before proceeding way to do it contained in Made in Germany and completely lead free police luger markings an way! Be aligned with forward main Eagle over 83 is the third such holster identified,. This marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations before proceeding, M. Morris P08 and... And black holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei 30 's cleaning! His permission, I have posted it below collar assembly to be with. Criminal law permission, I have posted it below holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters Landjgerie. The cleaning rod the responsable acceptance office for Mauser ( WaA83 ) assembly a... Police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector in any recognizable pattern Canada week... The unusual marking is located between the belt loops the 20 's or 30 's of! Guns are reported with DWM toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern navy cleaning rod police... 220Mm, short length pull-through chain signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg ) would be greatly appreciated 1262,.. Together for comparison are a police cleaning rod with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n Luger. For this police force are contained in Made in Germany and completely lead free,. A loading tool police officers a police cleaning rod with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n Luger.
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